Dave
Added: 20:06 13th.Jun.2005
Dear Paul:
From all my experience over the years of being
around the Ukrainian people plus visiting Kiev, I
have discovered there are general differences in
culture, but keep in mind there are always
exceptions to the rule. In general, in Ukrainian
society the man is the man and the women is the
women. Man is supposed to be the bread winner and
the masculine one. A man should be strong in ways we
commonly view strength - leadership, protection,
career, etc....Kind of like how things were a long
time ago in America. The women is supposed to be
gentle, kind, nurturing, feminine, beautiful with a
nesting instinct, etc.....the way things were a long
time ago in America.
The Ukrainian women I have known here in the US tend
to be a little more conservative in general than the
women in central Kiev from my experience. Probably
because they are religious and probably because most
of the ones I know come from smaller towns than
Kiev. The ones I know here in the US are, however,
very interested in family, children, cooking,
homemaking, and "taking care of their husbands (not
to be confused with "slavery"). It is common for a
14 year old Ukrainian girl to continually serve me
food when visiting at her families home! I was
shocked at this treatment because no 14 year old
American girl ever did this for me. They are raised
this way as small children. They help each other,
older siblings take care of the younger ones, the
mother teaches the girls house cleaning and cooking.
The fathers teach the boys working on cars, trades,
and BBQ sishlik, construction, etc. So far I get the
feel from Kiev that it is the same with traditional
roles, but I find the women in Kiev to be more into
career and education and business. Kiev is the
modern center for Ukraine, and anyone who wants to
be someone goes to Kiev to achieve a career -
generally speaking. So to me the women in Kiev are
kind of like a medium between an American women and
an traditional religious Christian Ukrainian women I
know in the states.
Here is something too. Ukrainian people are smart
when it comes to survival and to making a buck.
Their society is a scam society - many, many things
are under the table. They know how to be tough,
tricky, and shrewd. It is almost instinct in them on
how to make a buck on the table or under it. I can
tell you stories you would not believe. Sometimes I
can see it in their eyes when I deal with them.
Their wheels never stop turning in this way. It is
almost in their genes I think. So in this economical
sense they are smart. But when I meet Ukrainian
women here and in Ukraine, I feel socially they have
an innocence about them that is very hard to resist.
One day I heard Brett say with humor in the office
something like: "All you have to do is tell a
Ukrainian women you love her and ........" Now I am
starting to see that. I think truly many of these
women are just plain lonely and want the basics -
love, family, children, security, etc..... I seldom
if ever found that attitude in American women.
I find American women to be much more aggressive,
outspoken, negative about men, stuck up, shallow,
cold, emotionally unavailable, non-family oriented,
non-traditional, less stylish in dress, and much
heavier in weight. There are a few exceptions to
this rule, but I think it generally holds true. I
find these characteristics in American women to be
across religious lines - there is generally no
difference between an American women in church and
out of church. I believe this to be true because of
our society and culture. We have a huge amount of
freedom, wealth, and choice here. We are bombarded
from all directions as far as how to live. Ukraine
does not have it that way.
I have been ridiculed many times in America for
"looking for a women or a wife." Both men and women
have made it seem that there was something
psychologically wrong with me for hunting - like
some kind of desperation or weakness. But then I
realized that this primal instinct was actually
normal, healthy, and how men were made to be. So,
now I am much more proud to be a hunter and realize
that it is really normal for me not to wear a dress
and sit back and wait for a women to fall from the
sky.
You will not see things in Ukraine like skin heads,
outlaw motor cycle gangs, racial gangs, body
piercings, tattoos gal ore, cowboys, gays, rockers,
punkers, goth, etc.....Everyone kind of looks the
same. There is no real freak show to see. There are
a few minor exceptions I am sure, but I have yet to
run into them going all over Kiev so far. It was
strange for me because I am from San Francisco and
Sacramento - where's the freak show?
Here is another thing. I hear women in Kiev talk
about family and marriage all the time. I have
spoken, dated, or known hundreds of women over the
years in the US. Many women would think you were a
freak if you spoke about marriage in the first six
months. I do not find that with Ukrainian women. I
believe most of them truly want those things. They
are less concerned about the car you drive or the
style of your shoes. They are more concerned with,
"Will he provide for the family? Will he take care
of me? Will he stay after we have kids? Will he not
drink too much? "
Some Ukrainian women I know here in Sacramento were
on break at their office job. When the American
ladies in the lunch room asked what this Ukrainian
women did over the weekend, she told them she cooked
cakes with her daughters for the father/husband. The
American women ridiculed her for doing that! The
Ukrainian women could not understand how doing
something kind and loving could be a bad thing!?
Do watch out for scammers, however. There are a few
out there, but I had none with Brett's agency. I got
good at spotting them on the net, and I would warn
them ahead of time of all their not-so-original
tricks before they had a chance to play them. Then
they suddenly lost interest in me. There are a few
women, however, who are more interested in just
going to nice restaurants. Then there are a few who
gave me the feeling, that they just want to meet and
go to America - not to use me or scam me, but just
because I was a kind of super hero from a super
country. In short, they would take any Joe Average
from America. Then there was one that I felt had
unrealistic expectations about what life would be
like in America. She thought she was going to
Hollywood to be a star. She thought I would fly her
back and forth from Sacramento to L.A. every weekend
for her shows. But I consider all of these issue to
be "normal" in finding someone. Trust me, I have
found one billion times worse scenarios in America!
I finally found a lady in Kiev who is working well
with me now. She has never asked for money. She has
never hinted or acted like she was coming to
America. All in all, she has been cautious about me
and cautious about coming to America. One scenario I
avoided: Those women who were not willing to have
some regular correspondence with me prior to
meeting, I stayed away from.
Here is one very important factor - in Ukraine they
do not actively teach women to be hostile toward
men. In the US, it is the official policy. For
example, I am a single dad of a 12 year old boy. In
the public school system of California, they
actively and openly teach that if a 5 year old boy
holds hands with a 5 year old girl, it is called
"Sexual Harassment." I have openly told my son's
teacher that the system is perverted to the highest
degree. In Ukraine there is not such a thing. There
also is no such thing as suing someone for a slip
and fall, worker's comp., constructive termination,
sexual harassment (you looked at them the wrong
way), etc. And unlike the Ukraine, 80% of all the
world's attorneys live in the US. Also, in Ukraine
children are generally taught to respect older
people and adults. One young Ukrainian guy who was
20 years old at a spectator game, let me have his
seat (I am 38) even though he owned it! I asked him
why. He said I was older. It was so weird to me. But
then I said, "This is a good thing. This is how it
should be."
Yes, I do think Kiev will be corrupted in years to
come. They look up to Americans and envy them in a
way. They want to try to be like us. Sometimes it is
funny to watch their culture try to become like us.
But there will always be the ladies from the
outlying areas in Ukraine. There are many things I
can bash America for, but one thing I learned while
working in Ukraine for charity is this: Americans
are a very generous culture. We have been taught
through all our institutions to help charities for
the needy. This is something Ukrainians in general
(rich or poor) have very little concept of with a
few exceptions. But on the other hand, I find
Ukrainians in general to be much more hospitipal
than Americans. Every time I go to their homes, they
try to make me stay and they want to feed me
everything until I cannot eat anymore.
So there you have some ideas in a nut shell. The key
is to get to know the women over time with them. One
of the workers at Kiev Connections told me that the
most successful couples are those who spend a lot of
time together while in Kiev. It is my personal
opinion that a person should write back and forth
maybe half a dozen times or more. Then meet in
person. If it is good, keep going. I am going back
for my third trip to Ukraine and we are right now in
the process of filing the paper work for her to come
here. So it has been about a year or more since we
first met through the writing. This is just my
personal way. Everyone works different.
Also, my opinion is to keep the age difference at
about ten years or less. I think it is kind of a
fantacy for some old guy to get a very young
Ukrainian women. But if the old guy just wants to
have her for a few years to help bring her here,
then it can work as a mutual understanding. I have
heard of some people I know who know people who have
done this.
Hope it all helps. If you ever need more specifics
or whatever let me know. The harvest is bountiful -
the workers are few! LOL
